Leveraging Government Engagement to Build Resiliency in the Food System with Judith McGeary of FARFA
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Allyssa: 0:26
Welcome to the Direct Farm Podcast. We've got a terrific conversation for you today with FARFA also known as the Farm And Ranch Freedom alliance. I am delighted to welcome Judith McGarry, the Executive Director for the Farm And ranch Freedom Alliance. Welcome Judith.
Judith: 0:43
Thank you, Alyssa. I'm glad to be on.
Allyssa: 0:46
Great to have you here. So I guess to get started, tell us a little bit more about the history of FARFA.
Judith: 0:52
So FARFA was created just over 15 years ago, as a response to the national animal ID system, which was a USDA plan to electronically tag and track every livestock animal in the country. At the time, I was an attorney juggling being a lawyer and being a farmer. And when I read the documents for the program. I recognized that this was going to be extremely destructive for sustainable livestock farmers, but because of the way it was written. We looked around and frankly, there wasn't any other group fighting it. So, I got together with some other farmers and ranchers who I respected and said, let's do something about this. And we created FARFA to fight the NAIS.
Allyssa: 1:34
Thank you so much for just giving us that brief history and that background. And to know that it was started by farmers too, because you have that experience on that side and you're able to speak to, you know, this is a way that we can change or we can go about something that will benefit all of us. So from that perspective, looking to now, how has FARFA as an organization evolved over the years and what types of farms do you support?
Judith: 1:58
So we from the beginning were about, have been about small scale, sustainable farms selling locally and regionally. Many of our farms sell direct to consumer. Many of them also do it to, you know, small scale, independent grocers or restaurants, but within the local community with short supply and distribution chains.
Allyssa: 2:23
So when you're looking at all of your members across the board, I'm sure from time to time you survey, then you keep in touch with them. You see what's working. Okay. This is great information that we can continue to provide to you. Here's an area of improvement as well. So what are some of the beneficial aspects of a FARFA membership?
Judith: 2:41
There's three categories. One is . The one-on-one consultations, you know, we have members who just need somebody. Who's got some clue about what on earth to even start. I mean, honestly, so one of the things we can do, I'll go back. You know, when I say we don't know the rags and every area, you know, even in Texas, I'll admit every, so often someone comes up with something and I'm like, you know, that's a really good question. I don't know the law on that specific type of product being sold in that specific channel. Here's how we can figure this out. Because there really are these basic simple steps that, well, they're simple once you know them, as to how to work through the regulatory and legal system. But people aren't taught this and the regulators won't teach you it either. So you know that the one-on-one consultation where we can, either we have an answer or we can help you figure out how to find it is huge benefit that I know, I, I get a lot of positive feedback from our folks on the value of that. There's also a very diffuse benefit, but an important one, which is, you're supporting the organization that has, for instance kept the farmers from having to comply with regulations. FDA's estimate of what it would cost for a small farm to comply with the produce safety regulation was in the twenties to $30,000 range per year. The work we do saves farmers, immense amounts of money from having, you know, from the prevention of bad regulations that they would have to be complying with. And then the last is, you know, information and support. Generally we put out a quarterly newsletter, we're letting people know what's going on. We teach them how to be effective advocates for themselves. We put on an annual conference that has information on everything from how to be, you know, raising livestock and your crops to also, you know, the financial and the marketing and all of these aspects that go into success for a small farm or food business.
Allyssa: 4:44
Tell us more about your conference.
Judith: 4:46
So the conference, this will be our 15th year. It's our third year partnering with the small producers initiative at Texas state university, which is where now it's physically it's held is in San Marcos, Texas. Since we're partnering with the University there. We got our fingers crossed hard for an in-person event. The first week of August. And we do have backup plans for an outdoor event in October, because I believe in contingency planning and after last year, one way or another, it's going to be in person. It's either going to be an August in indoors at Texas State University, or it'll be outdoors, you know, end of October at a location we're working with. It's a great place. I mean, everyone, I think, has been to a conference or another. And one of the things that you, I think on all of these conferences is just the opportunity to connect with the community. And just come away and realize you're not the only lunatic who thinks that farming this way and marketing this way is a good idea. I think that's a huge value in addition to all the information you can learn about the full spectrum of you know, how you can improve your business, how you can improve your farming. And we, of course, being FARFA touch on, you know, we have sessions on the policy and the regulatory and how we can change the whole system that we're all working in.
Allyssa: 6:01
I love how you touched on the saving money aspect of it. But I think in addition to that, you're saving time, which also translates to money, but being able to have the resources, the educational content, these conferences, are you finding that a lot of your members, once they feel empowered, they have those resources. They're able to act quicker and to know how to have those conversations with regulators?
Judith: 6:25
When I started, I had no clue what was going on, but what's great is watching it go from there to, you know, then I run into them at a conference and I'm like, Oh yeah, this happened. And this is how I handle that. And they never even had to think they never even picked up the phone to call me this time. Because they understood and they felt confident enough to handle the situation themselves. And that's great. I mean that, that's just one of the best feelings.
Allyssa: 6:50
That's terrific. Maybe share, I'm a little curious about your personal experience because you're a farmer as well. So when you first started and going into working for FARFA as well, founding this organization, what was your personal experience working through with the legislature, regulators navigating this environment and feel free to take time.
Judith: 7:11
I think there's two things that stand out for me. One was just the level that I didn't understand the barriers. You know, when I started here, I was a lawyer. You would, you would think that I would, I would understand that, but. I was kind of like we're doing the right thing. You know, we're farming in a way that certainly it's causing no problem for our neighbors. Mean there's no noise. There's no odor problem. There's no runoff. We're providing healthy food. We're selling it face to face with these people who wanted desperately, you know, we're healing the earth. We're treating our animals well, I mean, who couldn't love us? And, and then I realized, well, oops, apparently there's this whole huge world of large corporations who really don't love us all. And they worked for decades to develop a regulatory scheme and teach regulators to be scared of us and think we're the problem. That, wasn't a quick realization. I mean, that's not a statement I make casually. It is a statement I make after 15 years of really watching these dynamics I'll even use a specific example of a bill that we're doing right now. We're trying to get ungraded eggs to be able to be sold to restaurants and retailers. Well, you know, USDA's own materials, you know, it's all of the science and even regulatory statements are that grading has nothing to do with food safety. It doesn't address foodborne illness. It's a marketing issue. And I watched the industry and I literally can hear the lobbyists. You know, these are the conversations I hear him saying, having with legislators. Well, yes, technically there's no food borne illness, you know, food safety aspect. But what if those ungraded eggs from those farmers cause an outbreak and it causes a problem, you know, blow back for our industry. And I'm like, I'm sorry, I'm really having trouble with this logic. You just admitted, it's not a foodborne illness outbreak, but you really are doing your damnedest to convince these legislators that it actually is a food, you know, a food safety issue, and they're going to be hurting people if they'd let our small farmers have this opportunity. And that is the conversation we hear over and over and over in all sorts of areas. And so, we have to have an effective voice in response. We have to be there talking about why, what we're doing is something everyone should love. Why, what we're doing is good for the planet. Good for human health, good for animal welfare. Because if we don't, we're going to get run over. And we've seen it, we've gotten run over many, many times over the decades. And still occasionally now, because it takes time to build back power and be able to be an effective voice encounter.
Allyssa: 10:00
In this time too, like you mentioned some of your membership they're consumers. They're supporters as well. So I'm sure having people on the other side to be able to speak to, you know, I care where my food comes from. I want to buy local from a family farmer in my area that helps speak to the importance of sustainability and taking care of the land and all the, those aspects that you mentioned as well.
Judith: 10:25
Absolutely. And that's one of the things we encourage our farmers. Is to not, not feel like they have to fight things alone. One of the things, you know, if, if you're selling direct, one of the things you've already learned is how to build relationships with your customers. You know, that's part of being a direct marketing farmer. well. If there's an issue or a regulatory issue, use those relationship and you know, that's not a bad thing. These people who buy food from us as farmers want us to stay in business. They don't, they don't want their farmers going out of business. They don't want them to farmers having to spend time or spend money and have, you know, on things that shouldn't be happening. Give them the opportunity to step up and help and be part of this movement in that way.
Allyssa: 11:12
Are you finding within the past year that. A lot of the farms and ranchers are having a closer relationship with their buyers and consumers? As people kind of start to buy more local, or have you noticed a shift or a change, like you mentioned with them, people being more aware or more concerned about where does my food come from?
Judith: 11:31
I think what I'm seeing is the beginnings. I wouldn't say it's necessarily stronger relationships. It's more relationships. So we've had for a long time, you know, sort of the hard core local buying community. And then what happened with COVID is all of a sudden, like a lot of the rest of the country was like, Oh no, wait, grocery store shelves don't magically fill themselves? But what. And some segment of them went, I think I've heard about this farm, you know, just outside town. I need to go check this out. And so I don't know that those are strong relationships yet. It takes time to build strong relationships, but I think they have the potential to be. I remember reading about how Target and other companies spend a lot to try to identify when somebody is about to have a baby. Because when there's a big shift in someone's life, you can permanently change their buying habits. Like it's the opportunity to, you know, their habits are about to get broken because they're about to become new parents. And if you can catch them, then you can make a loyal Target buyer out of them. And in some ways that's the same situation here. We had a lot of people whose habits were, deeply disrupted. I don't make light of it in any way. I mean, COVID was so disruptive on so many levels for everyone in this country. And there's an opportunity in that. There's an opportunity because it broke people out of their patterns out of their habits. And now we have to build the relationships and help them to understand not only that the conventional food system is fragile as they saw. But look at all of the great things that the local resilient food system can offer.
Allyssa: 13:14
I think that's so important to focus on resilience because I think, like you mentioned this past year, no one was prepared. We were all, you know, caught off guard and trying to figure out a way to support, you know, local business, especially local farmers in this time and knowing grocery store shelves, you know, they're empty. What do we do now? And there's, you know, that sort of panic there. So among your members, what would you say was a common thread or a conversation that you would have this past year? Reflecting back on the pandemic, trying to figure out next steps and how to navigate this uncertain time.
Judith McGeary, FARFA: 13:48
A lot of our farmers have struggled with how much certainty to put into these new relationships. Do you scale up? Do you take this opportunity?
Judith: 13:57
Do you assume that that customer base is going to stay there?
Judith McGeary, FARFA: 14:00
And I think that equation is different for each one. I don't think there's a single answer
Judith: 14:05
that
Judith McGeary, FARFA: 14:05
that's going to apply for every farmer. I think you have to assess those new customers and what the lay of the land is.
Judith: 14:10
In your, in your area as to what percentage of them are going to stay with you. As things returned to normal. And I, think by now people already getting a good sense of that, but, you know, that was the big question. I think March, April, may, June, like, what do I make of this demand level and what can I, what do I do with it? There are certainly still
Judith McGeary, FARFA: 14:27
even now. There's this very significant continued interest
Judith: 14:31
in,
Judith McGeary, FARFA: 14:31
in more resilient foods.
Judith: 14:33
And I've seen our farmers talking a lot more with people doing steps, also like diversifying more and making sure, you know, trying to put themselves in a position where they, have a larger offer sort of offerings. So that they're able to provide people with more of a grocery experience, you know, diversification is always been something we've talked about in our movement and I think it's stronger now.
Judith McGeary, FARFA: 14:55
People are seeing this real advantage of well we have this opportunity to get these customers, to stay with us. If we can keep providing them with the range of foods that they're looking for, which can also mean that moving into value, added
Judith: 15:09
moving into, you know,
Judith McGeary, FARFA: 15:10
and this is where the cottage food laws that are in almost every state come in handy because you can take your products and make value added products without necessarily having to invest in a commercial kitchen and expensive permits.
Judith: 15:24
You know, you can try that out, find out what appeals to your customers. So we've always encouraged that sort of diversification. And I think it's even more important now in terms of capturing and holding that customer base.
Allyssa: 15:38
I, I think we found on our end as well, that diversifying your projects, the value added products, not only what can you raise on your farm, but also other farms that you can partner with and not being afraid of those partnerships or collaborating with other businesses in the area to know that there's benefit to that. I feel like in this time, especially buyers are looking for that convenience and they're looking for, like you said, that one stop shop the grocery store experience, through these farms, these local farms. So knowing that that's an option, trying to have the buyers be able to have that need, but also the farmers.
Judith: 16:10
Our movement started heavily on a very much sort of, go it alone attitude. And, and to some extent that's inherent almost in farming. My husband and I mean, there's just so many things that happen on your farm and you have to deal with them as they come up. So if you aren't, at least to some extent a go with a lone person, you're probably not going to be in farming. You know, it's just the nature of farming, but we do need it to also be about community. We need to strike that. Best of both worlds where the, the rugged individuality, the go it alone is certainly a part of farming, but let's not feel like we have to be everything and do everything ourselves. Let's work with our neighbors let's work with other farmers. They may not physically be neighbors, but you've got some in your region. You have fellow producers at the farmer's markets. And let's also look at it again as a community and how do we engage our customers? So that they're not just customers. You know, and for FARFA, you know, looking at what we do, how do you engage with your elected officials, whether it is local or state or federal, let's look at this and look at the whole community impact of what we're doing.
Allyssa: 17:23
And then I also love how you touched on too, that the scale side of how that's a big decision, not every farm is going to immediately grow at scale year over year, because it is a large investment, but for those who are looking to do that and expand their reach, have you noticed that they've implemented new business strategies like subscriptions or CSA boxes, or trying to figure out a way to build that recurring cashflow on that side of things too?
Judith: 17:48
Yeah, I think certainly the there's the boxes, you know, whether it's a CSA subscription or just some other sort of a regular box, mixed offerings have definitely ramped up and people have seen a lot of good response to that.
Allyssa: 18:04
Yeah, definitely especially the spring and summer months right now, I know a lot of people are going to the farmer's markets are looking for those options as well. So thinking ahead, now I know we talked about the past year, how uncertain it was, but even looking into it the future, no one has that crystal ball. We're like, Oh, we know what's going to happen in a month or two months from now. So when you're talking to your members, how are you preparing them for the future? Just being able to pivot or anticipate, you know, something that the unknowns of what could happen.
Judith: 18:33
Part of it is what we've already said, which is diversification. Just having different options, including in how and who you sell to, our members who are hardest hit by COVID were the ones that were heavily reliant on the restaurant sales, they built their model around being the re the source for the local sourcing restaurants. And those guys got hit the hardest. They were able to pivot and because there was such demand for local food that they were able to open it. But if there hadn't been this huge influx of new customers coming in, looking for local food, they'd have been in incredible trouble. So diversifying, not just the product offerings, but how you know, who you sell to and how you think about selling to them without pulling yourself into a million different pieces. So I do want to, you know, the caveat is you do have to have some sanity and the ability to not feel like you're spending 24/7, creating every possible new niche that you have. It's a balance that you're going to have to strike. I'd also say, you know,
Judith McGeary, FARFA: 19:32
we're encouraging people to think
Judith: 19:34
long
Judith McGeary, FARFA: 19:35
long-term about what sort of changes are needed to make these systems work better.
Judith: 19:40
This goes back almost to your very first question about what FARFA did when we started and what we do now. You know, the first several years of what we did, what first with animal ID and then with the food safety modernization act, we're really serious damage control. How do we keep, you know, first USDA and then Congress and FDA from coming up with regs that are just going to decimate livestock and produce farms. And we're still watching for those things. Don't get me wrong. Unfortunately. It's not like we can say, Oh, it's done. It's never coming back. But now what we look at more is
Judith McGeary, FARFA: 20:16
where are the roadblocks that could be removed? And how do we prioritize this? Because we're not gonna be able to fix all of them.
Judith: 20:21
We're not gonna be able to change all of it. Where are the pressure points? Where are the bottlenecks that are keeping people from being able to either expand their business, to have security that their business is stable even, and sustainable over the long run, where, where are those problems?
Judith McGeary, FARFA: 20:40
And we have that conversation with our members a lot
Judith: 20:43
and, and I think we need people to.
Judith McGeary, FARFA: 20:47
And I mean, I'd love for people to engage with us, you know, with FARFA but also, you know, whether you're a member or not a member, do that analysis in your own head and go talk to your legislators about it. Go talk to them now while it's still fresh in their heads, that the conventional food system didn't really work very well in a crisis.
Judith: 21:08
Before they forget that
Judith McGeary, FARFA: 21:09
before that becomes too distant of a memory, go to them and say, you know what? When those grocery store shelves were empty, I was still able to sell food locally.
Judith: 21:19
I was still feeding this community and, you know, I'd be able to do a much better job at that. If I didn't need a grading license for my eggs. If we improve access to small-scale processors and I could use a custom processor, whatever it is, you know, those are two that I hear a lot, but whatever it is, take that to them now, while it's fresh in their heads and let's start trying to hit it removes some of those bottlenecks for our movement.
Allyssa: 21:48
Looking back on this past year or even within the last few months. Do you have a farmer success story in mind that you can share with us?
Judith: 21:56
I laugh a little bit because the last two months have been Texas legislative session. So, you know, I literally have moved out of my home into a place near the Capitol because that's all I do. So changing your timeframe a little bit. Let me answer that. I'll share a couple of stories. One that predates it quite a bit. But it is a good story about the impact people can have at any time by approaching their legislators. I had been trying to get this bill introduced about grading eggs and in allowing the sale of ungraded eggs. And I've been just having a tough time finding a bill sponsor who was like, eggs, grading what legislators are like, what are you talking about? And no one was interested. And then literally I talked to a farmer, and he had this great business plan he'd gotten started. He had no idea about this grading requirement and he ran smack dab, you know, head first into this barrier. And it was about to just completely undercut the whole way he was building his business and we talked and I was like, okay, here's your legislator's name. Here's their staffer. Here's what you want to talk to them about. Go talk to them. And the bill gets filed. You know, and now we have a whole battle in front of us to try to get it passed, but that's, you know, literally it was that constituent call that made that legislator go. Oh yeah. That makes sense that now I understand why FARFA has been tapping on my shoulder, asking me to sponsor this bill. Okay. I'll do it. We also have seen not so much for farmers, but I do think it shows the difference COVID made. There's been a bill for several sessions that keeps dying and has really sort of been a joke at the Capitol about backyard chickens, you know, allowing people to have backyard chickens without restrictions by the cities. And it's literally kind of laughed at and sort of one of these like, Oh, isn't this cute and funny. And then this session, we brought it as a home food security bill about gardens, chickens, rabbits, literally people being able to raise food for themselves and the attitude towards it is completely different. It is not a joke. People are not making fun of it. There's opposition and we may or may not be able to get a pass, but there's also very significant support from people who see it as a serious issue. And the reason they see it as a serious issue is because of what's happened, you know, in the last year with COVID and the food system. So, you know, I think there really is a shift and we're seeing that the federal level, we're seeing more interest in antitrust issues because of meat packers. We're seeing more interest in, in meat processing for small-scale producers. There is an awareness that we absolutely have an opportunity that I certainly haven't seen anything like it in my 15 years of working on policy and food.
Allyssa: 24:41
That's terrific. and to know that it sounds like people are open to having the conversation, whereas maybe before that door was closed. So being able to have farmers, you know, want to speak out and feel empowered to speak out. And then on the opposite side, you know, having the legislators, the regulators being open to listening and to having that dialogue back and forth as well.
Judith: 25:03
It feels weird to say this because again, it's been such a difficult year on so many levels, but I am more optimistic about potential for really making significant changes to support, you know, small local farms and regenerative agriculture that I've been at any time that I've done this, we've been doing this work.
Allyssa: 25:24
That's really inspiring. It's so important for people to be passionate, you know, about where their food comes from. And then for the producers to be like, great, we have that food, let's sell it to you and be able to have, like you said, that community aspect on the government level, but also through consumers and producers too, to be able to interact cohesively together. So before we sign off, is there one final piece of advice that you would like to share with farmers?
Judith: 25:48
Get involved. I know farming is long hours and hard work. I know it, I live it. It is one of the hardest jobs out there. And
Judith McGeary, FARFA: 25:57
it is so vital for our farmers to be in these conversations to be talking, not just about the food they sell, as important as that is. But talking about the difference it makes for their neighbors, for their rural communities, for the human health, whatever the aspects are that called you into this. And we all have reasons we went into this, that we're passionate about be sharing those reasons also and getting engaged at whatever level it is, local, state, federal because your path will be easier if we can make those changes. It'll never be easy to farm. That's not in the definition of farming, but we can make it less difficult with more farmer voices coming forward and talking about why we should make these changes and what those changes are. And no one knows better than the farmers themselves what changes are actually needed.
Allyssa: 26:55
And I guess I have one final question for you. Personal question. Why farming? What is it about farming that you're passionate about?
Judith: 27:04
So for me, it started for the environmental reasons, I was an environmentalist. But I always struggled as an environmentalist with just the reality of, and a philosophical belief that we can't just shut people out of nature. It's not going to work, and I didn't think it was. That's the right path and so much of a traditional environmentalist was about sort of separating people from, from the natural world. There was just a lot of it. And so when I found sustainable agriculture, the first thing that called the me was this amazing opportunity of healing land and having a biodiverse rich ecosystems. That we're providing food for humanity. I mean, that's, that's incredible. And then when you layer on top of that, that the same system, the same way to farm makes the food more nutritious for people. It helps small businesses, it can reinvigorate local economies. It's more humane for the animals. You know, it's more natural for the animals and you just start ticking this list off and you're like this isn't a zero sum game. Thanks to the energy we get from the sun and the ability of plants to harvest that energy. This isn't a zero-sum game. What we can do with this type of agriculture is, you know, heal soil, heal, plants, heal, animals, heal, people, heal communities. And I don't really know of any other area where you can look at something and go there's no downside. The only downside is some corporations lose their profit margin. And that really isn't going to keep me up at night. I hadn't planned to do the policy side, I hadn't planned to do the lobbying. I wanted to do the farming. But then as I said, I came to this realization that we had to be involved or we weren't going to be able to do the farming. And so now I can be just as passionate about the lobbying, because it's the necessary precondition to being able to do that type of farming.
Allyssa: 29:09
That's great and just to hear your heart behind it as well, too, as a farmer, but also on the policy side, like you mentioned how that is the necessary part of getting to the root of it all, or kind of where it all starts for everybody in the farming. So thank you so much Judith for joining us today. Great having you.
Judith: 29:27
Thank you for having me on. It's been a pleasure.
Allyssa: 29:30
I also want to thank the entire membership at FARFA here at Barn2Door We are delighted to partner with organizations like FARFA to support family and farmers in all 50 states. For more information on FARFA you can visit FarmandRanchFreedom.org and to learn more about Barn2Door including access to numerous free resources and best practices for your farm, you can go to Barn2Door.com/Resources. Thank you for tuning in and we will see you next time.